13 Responses to “Labrador Puppies For Hunting”
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July 17th, 2010 at 1:16 am
Worried about the Labrador puppy I am considering buying…?
I have been searching the local Melbourne (AUS) Trading Post for purebred Labrador Puppies and I finally found some that I like.
The only problem is that the description says that only the MOTHER is available for showing. Should I be worried about this because the pups only cost $350 each?
*** I am NOT bargain hunting for my puppy so I am not interested in them because they are cheap – I am actually concerned because of their price.
Just wondering because their parents do not have papers or anything and because the father is not on show, the pups could have any kind of hereditary diseases.
Thanks for all the help.
I was also considering a Lab x Golden Retriever, both parents on view, same description (wormed, vacc, vet checked) but they cost $250 (no papers for either sire or dam) which makes me concerned as well.
Is $250 an acceptable price (if the pups are perfectly healthy) for a purebred Labrador x purebred Golden Retriever?
*** Again, NOT bargain hunting.
July 17th, 2010 at 6:18 am
When they say the Mother is available for showing they just mean that you can have a Look at the mother(so you know shes not in bad health). You go buy that puppy and give it a loving home. Sounds good to me Elena
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:20 am
Papers don’t always mean something important….some people have papers on there dogs but they are inbreed. The person should at least have a picture of the father if they don’t I would NOT under ANY chances buy a puppy!! Who knows who the father is!! they should have something form the father…a number to the owner of the male, like I said a photo…SOMETHING. If not I would say be VERY worried!! Other than that labs noramlly go for about $300-$500…they might be on the lesser end because of the no papers thing!!
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:22 am
This is a little strange that they refuse to show the sire,(Father) or the puppies. Ask them to show you the papers saying that both father and mother are registered dogs. If they aren’t both registered buyer beware… bring along a veterinarian to do a check up on the puppy before you buy it, if they refuse to let you have a veterinarian look at the dog on-site, then walk away, you want a healthy purebred dog and for $350 a piece that is a small thing to ask for. Best of luck to you. You might have to pay for the veterinarian to examine the puppy but think of it like this, would you rather be out of $100.00, or $350???
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:24 am
I saw the father of my puppy – a lovely (big) JRT, smashing dog. Did not see the mother – reason? She was a Doberman Pinser.
Have a lovely big JRT myself now – just like his father in size but with a DP head and bottom!
Smashing dog but gets very confused about whether he should sight or scent things. LOL… Out walking one minute he is watching something, then shrugs his shoulders (metaphorically) and starts sniffing for it! Vet reckons he will not live as long as a JRT but otherwise he is lucky and is in reasonable health though prone to allergies.
I think you need to know about the dad, at least know the breed.
Good luck with your new puppy – hope that you have lots of fun.
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:26 am
They are BOTH *OBVIOUSLY* just junk-dawgs!
WHY worry about MUTT/MONGRELS!!!
***WHY**** pay ANYTHING for MUTTS/MONGRELS when there are THOUSANDS sitting the POUND???
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:28 am
Ask WHY the dad isn’t available and that should help you decide.
Here in the states some "hobby" breeders who show their dogs and breed because they want to improve the breed ,will artificially inseminate a dog with sperm from a dog on the other side of the country.
If it is a hobby breeder that shipped out for sperm, they’ll be able to tell you WHY they did it.
If the dog isn’t available for some other reason, I would ask alot more questions.
Contact your local Lab. Club and see if they have guidelines for breeding or a list of health checks that need to be done and see if the breeding pair meets these requirements.
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:30 am
I would be more concerned with finding a breeder who has proof of hip certification rating of at least "fair" or better on both parents. The extra cost would be worth saving you the money in vet bills in the future.
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:32 am
People have made some good suggestions so far, including asking who the male was and why you cannot see him. It isn’t unusual for breeders to use a male from a different location, but you should still be available to visit him, or at they should at least have some photographs of him.
If the mother dog isn’t registered, the breeder probably doesn’t have certified hips. In the US, breeders can OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) certify their dogs after 2 years of age that they show good hip conformation. Despite both the parents being OFA certified, it does not necessarily guarantee that their offspring will be free of hip dysplasia, but it’s helpful. I’m sure they have some sort of similar certification in AUS.
It’s not necessarily a BAD thing that the breeder does not have this sort of certification. Just ask the breeder a lot of questions. I don’t know what your vaccination standards are in AUS, but make sure the breeder sounds like they know what they are talking about. In the US, pups get their first shots at about 6-8 weeks of age, usually before coming home from the breeder. Working for a vet clinic, I am frustrated on a daily basis when new pups come in for a check up, and the breeder did not provide the new owner with vaccination information, as in what shot was given, and when.
Regardless of what puppy you choose, there are several things you should ask the breeder:
- Ask the breeder if they plan to vaccinate, with what, and when.
- Ask when the pups were wormed. They should have been wormed by now.
- Ask what sort of food the breeder is feeding. Make sure he isn’t feeding a really junky food. That would indicate to me that the owner doesn’t really take breeding very seriously.
- Ask if this was a planned breeding and why they chose to breed these two parents.
- Ask how many litters the mom has had, and when the last litter was. Females go into heat about every 6 months. Ideally, she should not have had a litter 6 months ago.
Good luck and congrats in advance on the new pup!
Michelle
CVT
References :
http://www.offa.org/hipinfo.html
July 17th, 2010 at 6:34 am
If these dogs are purebred but with no papers, these people are likely breeding pet quality dogs who are on "no breeding" contracts. You should, therefore, be very careful before buying from them. You need to find out if the parents have been tested for hip dysplasia, if the puppies come with a health guarantee. I personally think that $350 is a lot of money for a dog with no papers – basically, if there’s no registration, it’s a mutt.
If you’re seriously interested in one of these puppies, you should ask a lot of questions first and be careful of the temperaments, too.
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July 17th, 2010 at 6:36 am
I think I would call them and ask ‘why’ the father isn’t available for show. Maybe he belongs to other owners and they have moved or not interested in people seeing him (for what ever reason) and/or maybe something tragic has happened and he is deceased. Call them, I’m sure there is a very good explanation. Good Luck
References :
Experienced Cocker Spaniel owner/breeder and vet assisstant – http://www.roberson-cocker-spaniels.com
July 17th, 2010 at 6:38 am
YOU ARE VERY RIGHT TO BE CONCERNED!!
Labs have a host of hereditary problems – hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, eye conditions, cardiac, thyroid…
Most people don’t know that the dog can move fine and not be showing any signs of pain or lameness and STILL have dysplaisa which WILL eventually cause lameness and pain and large vet bills. Thyroid disease is a sleeper and hits in early middle-age with its symptoms. Ditto many cardiac conditions that can be diagnosed by testing but show no symptoms until later.
Heartbreaking inquiry here on Yahoo the other day from a woman who bought a Lab puppy from such a backyard breeder. At 8 months the symptoms of dysplaisa showed up, xrays show it to be very severe and she is looking at thousands in bills for surgery and pain meds.
Also – just because they say the dogs are "purebreed" doesn’t mean they are without those papers. Who know what grandpa or great-grnadmother was? One cross- breed back to a dog of one of its breed and then breeding those dogs back again into the breed will, within 1-2 generations yield dogs who look like that breed.
Now if these people were something other than backyard breeds of unregistered dogs and were responisble breeders raising and competing their dogs,I would say the absence of the sire is normal. My young dog’s sire is the No. #1 how dog and sire in his breed in the US. He is bred to females all over the US – some are flown into him, some are bred with fresh shipped semen, and dome by frozen semen. That is not the situation here at all.
First, backyard breeders who do this to make a little money or wouldn’t it-be fun-to-have-a-litter-and-keep-a-puppy DO NOT EVER do all the health screening exams for the hereditary health conditions. These folks don’t even care enough to keep the dog’s registations up or get dogs with proper registrations and who are proven superior examples of their breed in the ring for their breeding project . Start asking them for the records for at least 5 generations (minimum for reliable data) of hip and elbow xrays, thyroid test and cardiac exams – watch them make excuses.
Second, actually, they are OVER-CHARGING for dogs of unknown breeding and unknown status for hereditary health problems. They are making money for doing nothing more than allowing their dog to have sex and (maybe) having paid to have the puppies wormed and given their initial shots ($50-75 US at the most.)
Here in the US, Labs have sufferred from being loved too much by too many and over produced – mainly by backyard breeders. This has resulted in the widepread increase of the hereditary health problems, a decrease in the quality of the dogs and a sharp rise in temperment and aggression problems – temperment being hereditary due to the neurological biochemicals.
Being a little vague of what is the southwest or northeast of Australia, I don’t have the website for the Lab Breed Club that I know is in your area; You can start with this one and they will help you find a reliable responsible breeder:
http://www.salabclub.com.au/?page=clubhistory
The Clubs’ websites will give you an ENORMOUS amount of information about the breed – the good, the bad, and the why or why not to get that breed. The clubs websites also usually have:
(1) a breeders list – all of whom have agreed to abide by the breeders code of ethics (which you can read)
(2) a link to the breed rescue for their breed
If you decide to get a puppy, please use one of the breeders who are members of a long-standing breed club. A well-bred pet puppy may not be a candidate for the show ring (that nose being 1/8th of an inch to long or something else very picky) but they will be very healthy, the parents carefully screened for hereditary health problems, and from a breeder who has devoted a great deal of time to understanding the breed and bloodlines. A responsible breeder will have a written contract with a health guarantee for hereditary problems; require that if for any reason you ever have to give up the dog that it comes back to them; and always be available for help, assistance and advice about your dog. Such a breeder will tell you if they don’t think their breed is right for you based upon your needs. They want a perfect forever home for the puppies – not the money. (In 43 years in the dog show world, I have never known a breeder of that caliber who has made a profit on their dogs – it is labor of love.)
A puppy from such a breeder costs no more – and often less as poorly bred dogs tend to have very high vet bills over the years – than from a backyard breeder who doesn’t do the health checks, knows nothing about the breed or bloodlines, doesn’t give a guarantee, never wants to hear about the puppy again and has breed from mediocre or poor quality dogs.
You may find the breeder who has the type of dog you want but no litter on the ground at the moment. Most good breeders have waiting lists -get on it. You may find the breeder and puppy you want but at a distance. Among the really responsible breeders(members of the club) shipping a puppy is quite normal -they want the best possible home for the dog and the written contract is very extensive.
Do ask the breeders on the club list if they have any dogs they bred that they need to rehome – good breeders all require if the owner can’t keep one, it comes back to them. It may be a dog they placed and it came back because the owner didn’t have time, didn’t realize how big it would get, got divorced…. It may be a dog who was a show prospect but as they grew didn’t meet their early promise. It may be an AKC Champion they decided not to use in their breeding program because while it did get the Championship, they don’t need more bloodstock or find a tiny conformation flaw they don’t want to reproduce.
The club may have or may be involved with a rescue for their breed.
Do give serious thought to adopting from an adult from a breed rescue. The clubs’ breed rescues go to a great deal of trouble to determine the dog’s temperament, personality, likes and dislikes (particularly kids and cats and other dogs in the household), health, and level of training. They make a huge effort to match the right dog to the right home – and if they don’t have one they think will be suitable for your home, they won’t place it. Great way to avoid the puppy training, newspapers, chewing…….They have dogs that are purebred and part-bred (1/2 or so of their breed.) Dogs that come through rescue are so thrilled to have a forever loving home having once been abandoned to a shelter or rescue that they are typically extra devoted and loving. Dogs lose their homes for reason that are not their fault: death, divorce, a move and they couldn’t keep them, financial problems….
_______
Goldens have just as many – and in fact more – health problems than Lab. In the US they are in the top 3 breeds with cancer rates and are about No. 1 with allergies.
Breed a dysplastic Lab to a dysplastic Golden ( even if they only both carry the gene for dysplasia but don’t show it on xrays) and you get dysplastic puppies.
You have to know what is back there on the grandparents. the great -gps etc. The genes for dsyplasia are recessives The dog can be carrying it having inherited it from a parent who was dysplastic,, have clear xrays and produce puppies who are dysplastic if breed to another dog who carries that same dysplaistic gene.
NO DOG IS PUREBRED WITHOUT REGISTRATION PAPERS
Anyone who breeds two different breeds together is breeding MUTTS – and doing it from porr quality specimens of the breed that they got who knows where. . And they sure didn’t do the hereditary health problems screenings and tests
$250 for a mongrel?????? As PT Barnum (the 19th century circus promoter in the US) said "There is a sucker born every minute."
The fact that a dog is registered with the kennel club does NOT mean they are a good or superior example of their breed – it just means you can trace their family.
References :
43 years training showing handling and teaching performance
July 17th, 2010 at 6:40 am
Go to a recue group in your state. There perfectly rescue dogs that need loving homes. Don’t give breeders your money! There are many rescue groups for every breed of dog. Please take a moment and search for one in your state!
Thanks.
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